Tuesday, February 28, 2012

Roles and Responsibilities in BDSM relationships

Delaynie Barbosa: ok let's get started. I am your discussion facilitator for tonight, Thank you for coming to tonight's discussion. The theme of this discussion is Roles and Responsibilities in BDSM relationships. This discussion will cover some basic dynamics between dominants and submissives. This discussion is not intended to be a complete guide or pose definitives about D/s and BDSM relations.
To start this discussion, let's ask a simple question: What is a D/s relaitonship?
Delaynie Barbosa looks around smiling

Person: Two people who have agreed on some kind of power exchange
Person: Power exchange is not always part of a D/s relationship that can usually be applyed to the Top/bottom/Senior Dominant/ Junior dominant positions. As those are usually the roles that are geared more for power exchange

Delaynie Barbosa: That's also right xxx, and both you and zzz's positions inspired this discussion when I got to thinking about it.Anyone else have an opinion they would like to share?

Person:  I would like to hear what D/s positions involve no exchange of power, appropriately defined#

Person: The Daddy/Mommy tittles, as well as Sir and Master titles are more about giving back to the community, as well as menitoring others as well as ones submissive and more relationship based...as Daddys and mommies within D/s life was more for helping a bottom get their start in this lifestyle

Delaynie Barbosa: good xxx. I have a definition too. for the purposes of this discussion, a D/s relationship is any relationship between a dominant and submissive, lifestyle, roleplay, whatever. So let's start the first question. How does being a Top differ from being a Dominant?

Person: The title of top is usually just that. He is a man who is the aggressive fucker top type of person. Yes in leather, they usally are more dominant then the counter bottom however, they do not prosses any real training other then they like to be top during sex or be the aggressor in sex. The word top was also in regular vanilla gay life and looked at as the same as fucker not a fuckee. There are two types of tops back in the “Old Guard” days and they were known as a Junior Top and a Senior Top. The difference here is the Senior Top just had more knowledge of the leather community then a Junior Top. A Junior Top was someone who simply enjoyed being the fucker who may switch from time to time but preferred to be on the top. A senior top was one who was strictly a top aggressive fucker and maybe naturally dominant in his overall attitude in life and in sex but had not acquired any skills in leather. The council never recongnized these titles. They were just used by people who showed interest in leather as well as vanilla or regular gay life and knew they had to have a title to announce their preferance in sex to be welcomed into the leather community. It was like a starter position for them in the gay leather community. And if they were not in to leather it just defined them as to what they wanted in sex. It kind of still holds true today, I hear are you a top or a bottom and in some of the websites they ask that question just that way. To their amazement however, to join the leather community they would have to bottom as a boy before becoming a Sir, which sometimes stopped them from progressing in the leather community as some men felt they were only going to be a top and nothing was going in the out hole. A top is only called by his name with no Sir or Master in front of it.

Delaynie Barbosa: thank you Ani. That is quote a bit. I will give a few minutes for everyone to read that.

Person: xxx, instead of copy pasting a TON of chatter, what is your OWN view to the question that was asked? Just curious

Person: : Easy a top is simply a fuck role... hens the title fucktop

Delaynie Barbosa: I agree with xxx. all of us can access the wikipedia page, I am interested in faciliatating a discussion, not giving a lecture tonight. xxx did you have anything more to add?

Person: As I understand it, and I'm a novice here, a top would be primarily someone persuing the physical aspects of kink from the agressive stance, while a Dominant would be concerned more with care, education and discipline of a submissive.

Person: Related to xxx;s comment..Must a top... fuck? To me a top has a temporary role...can switch, or can even be directed by a dominant to take on the top role, be it discipline, sexual use etc.

Delaynie Barbosa: That is a good point also xxx. I think personally that a top is more of a scene or roleplay role.

Person: The top title is actually geared for helping us identify those that maybe interested in the BDSM life but no it does not have to be a fuck title only, but as Delaynie said it is also geard more for play scenese, but is also part of the power exchange within BDSM. But it is also part of the lgbt vanilla roles so it is how they identify the role in the relationship

Delaynie Barbosa: right, that is a different discussion, you can be lgbt ,and still be into D/s or not. RB?

Person:  ty, delaynie. I see the point about top and bottom describing what is done, but in that case, I fail to see how they are in a D/s relationship. Indeed, they may also be in one, but that is outside the top/bottom definition.

Delaynie Barbosa: alright, I do have a point to make, and since there seems to be some interest there, we will move there shortly. Let's allow xxx to add her comment first.

Person:  I am not fully sure the difference, but the way I see it, it is all relative to the dynamic of the individual relationship between two or more people. To me, Top seems more cold, like they are merely taking the role, and not fully partaking of a deep power exchange full relationship. However there are always points in any form of D/s where the lines may cross over either way, be it for play situations or otherwise

Person: You can be lgbt in the D/s community as one of the three main branches withing the BDSM community involves Gay Leather life. and again that is how the titles of top/bottom come in to the D/s lifestyle as they are to help identify those that are just looking for sex. but they may be naturally dominant.

Person: To touch on xxx's comment... I would thingk the top/bottom thing is still a relationship, though likely a bit more superficial. But the important thing in my mind is the connotation of the two terms. If I tell a submissive that I'm a top it conjures a different image than if I tell them I'm a Dominant. #

Delaynie Barbosa: Can we all agree that the most basic definition of Top or Dominant is the one who gives, or is in control, and the bottom or submissive is the one who recieves?

Person:  I did not say the top/bottom don't have a relationship -- clearly they do. But it does not, as described, involve a D/s flavor, and so is irrelevant to the point about D/s involving some kind of power exchange#

Delaynie Barbosa: very good, I think you hit th enail on the head there xxx. And it brings me t omy next question. I am going to talk about something people don't like to talk about a lot. It's what I call a service role. A Bottom who Tops, and a Top who Bottoms. Does anyone want to take a guess what these are, and no, they are not the same thing as a switch.

Person: I believe that each part gives of themselves uniquely, not only as an individual but also as their own role. A Dominant recieves many things from the submissive as well as the submissive recieving from the Dominant.

Person: i would agree very much with what xxx just said, and yes part of what each get from the relationship, does involve some power exchange, but not what everyone understands because of the roles of top/ bottom

Delaynie Barbosa: this might be a two part discussion, unless everyone has time for more then hour discussion tonight. Top and bottoms vs doms and subs have different meanings to me, an I am hoping we get that far. we may not.

Person: In regards to top and bottoms sort of switching roles..one for instance: A dominant/top who wants some pain, asks a sub/bottom to top.

Person: that would be more SM

Delaynie Barbosa: right that is one one way to express it. Verona?

Person: Topping from bottom and vice versa, is generally someone crossing the lines of their role. for instance, topping from bottom is like a submissive trying to control their Dominant or manipulate them to their will. Doing bottom from top can be pushing a bottom to take lead, though I do not know much about this part of it. I actually am interested to hear about it because it is never talked about.#
*crossing the lines of their role without consent

Delaynie Barbosa: thank you. Does anyone else have a question or comment before I give my opinion?

Person: well, i think in some situations topping from the bottom can be ok, if for instance you have a very experienced sub with some real affections for a paticular dom who is keen to learn but lacks experience. What xxx just said when a top wished to enter in to the Leather life, they was not allowed to take a Dominant role which usualy did stop a Top from going any farther in the life

Person:  everyone has to learn sometime

Person:  NOthing wrong with learning, as many of the best Dominants started out as submissives/bottoms/slaves

Delaynie Barbosa: thakn you xxx. We're not talking about topping from the bottom though zzz, we are talking about being a bottom who talks. Let me give example of what I am talking about.
In general, we believe the Dominant is in control and the submissive is on the recieving end of the Dominant's desires. At least on the surface of the relationshiip. In Service roles, it is the needs of the submissive who is being met. For example, a man might have a foot fetish and wants to see his female Dominant in many pairs of shoes so he can perform foot worship. If this fetish is mutual, then the needs of the Dominant are being catered to. However, if the Dominant's pleasure is derived from serving and loves to wear shoes mainly because it pleases the submissive, then the Dominant is a service top for the pleasure of the submissive.

Person: subs dont do what you want them to, they do what theyw ant to do, they just want you to tell them to do it

Delaynie Barbosa: that's one way of looking at it. I also feel that this is critical difference between being a top and being a Dominant. Many times the subs will say "I would love it my Master, if you will do XXX to me," and they beg for it b for any number of reasons. It's like they think the top is only a giver, and doesn't recieve from the sub as well.

Person: That is a case where a dominant is actually fulling the need of a submissive, while allowing the submissive to indulge in a fantasy they have, while the dominant may still maintain control, while giving the alusion of control to the submissive.


Delaynie Barbosa: When is it appropriate for the Dominant to indulge the submissive?

Person: Usually when a submissive is not forcing things with a Dominant to get what they wish, and to truely top from the bottom without the illusion of control

Delaynie Barbosa: okay interesting. anyone else? okay I will give my opinion then. I personally refer to service roles as Tops and Bottoms because it feels more accurate for the duties of the roles. Also, because Service Topping/ Service bottoming is self-serving, I like to deliniate the difference between heartfelt submission and scene submission.

Person: the benifits of being a dom are clear, service, submission, affection, spanking those firm little buttocks ! not to mention sex on tap, so if the dom is fullfilling the needs of the sub it isnt exaclty a tiresome chore. the sub however has more of a kink i think, they want what would be treatment that would be considered detrimental to them anywhere outside the relms of BDSM, i dont want to simplify matters , but a dom could simply be oppertunistic for the clear gains of getting it right and still be a very good dom.i dont realluy like insulting subs , it isnt my style but one sub i know really gets off on it especialy when she's aroused

Person: to me the roles of Dominant do not inharently mean that a Dominant is going to get sex on tap, from a submissive by saying get in bed boy/girl so i can fuck you stupid as if I as a submissive am not in the mood I am going to safe word out straight off and end the scene before it begines

Delaynie Barbosa: That would be a clearincident of Toping form the Bottom Ani, and a violaiton of D/s relationships. Safe words are not to stop things, it's to stop them from going too far. Submissives, but perhaps not bottoms, don't have the luxury of ddeciding everything for themselves.

Person: Right Delaynie but if I am not in the mood and they push things then they are already going to far

Delaynie Barbosa: that ight be the agreement in your relaitonship, ani, but others don't have it, so I don't want to make it a concrete point.
Here is another question. What are the differences in duties for someone who describes themselves as a top, vs someone that describes themselves as a Dominant? how about a bottom vs. a submissive?

Person: Because then it no longer becomes true D/s and can quickly go in to criminal rape

Person: could someone clarify the difference between a sub/botton and a top /dom for me ? i had allways thought of them as the same , is that too simplistic?

Person:  Right and again is why safewords are ment to put a halt to things before they go to far

Delaynie Barbosa: okay, I think we agreed that a top or bottom is for roleplay scening. A Dominant and submissive have a relaitonship that go further then sex.

Person: the conversation between you and xxx is interesting, because it's something of a grey area
shah Joffe: oops too early

Delaynie Barbosa: It's all a grey area. This is a discussion of opinions, not a lecture!

Person: A lecture is one sided as a discusion is not

TonyGreg Sparta: we are here to express our views . even if we may not agree on it .. we learn to respect it

Delaynie Barbosa: okay in my opinion, basically, Tops and Doms both share that they are responsible for the well being of a their bottom or submissive. But a Top's responsibilities stop with aftercare, where as a full time D/s relaitonhip requires much more giving and communication all the time, from both sides.

Person: This is a good example of the differences between a Top and a Dominant, in my eyes. He speaks of how we as submissives partake in a lifestyle basically detrimental to us, however, there are MANNY D/s relationships that are actually the opposite such as mine I have grown so much and have learned so much and in fact, anyone that knows me, such as my brother here, know that I have actually had life changing experiences in my D/s relationship for the better.

Person: well, every relationship is more complex, i was simplifying the nature of a D/s relationship down to it's crux

Delaynie Barbosa: Than kyou xxxx, another valid point. things are not always as they seem, which is why we must have tolerance for other people's relaitonships.

Person:  yes and very complicated for Dominants..Agreed Delaynie as a Sadiomasicist relationship may be totaly different then a D/s one

Delaynie Barbosa: okay it has been an hour, so I am going to bring this conversation to a close now. Are there any final coments or questions?
thank you everyone for coming. Be well and have a good weekend